CAP 20 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[nyttyn]

Time to chime in on some concepts!

Ability Neutralizer Ability neutralization is a gimmick, even in doubles. Pokemon simply just dont rely on their ability that much, and all current forms of abuse/neutralization save Intimidate vs Competitive/Defiant users can be resolved simply by switching out. Sorry but this is just unviable.
Paranoid Predicter It's called a 50/50 and they happen all the time in pokemon. While I don't nessecarily dislike the concept of prediction as an idea, your questions are really badly laid out/half of them are irrelevant, your justification is long and ranting, and I have no idea what "taking prediction to the next level" is supposed to mean.
Little Man Big Heart I really don't like this concept, sorry. It's already been well established over the course of pokemon history that BST is, functionally, meaningless - its how those stats are distributed that matters. Plus, 'just low bst' sounds awfully boring as a concept.

 

[EpicUmbreon29]

Name: Mega Buster

General Description: A Pokemon that aims to eliminate or otherwise render useless Pokemon that may Mega Evolve

Justification: In Generation 6, the advent of Mega Evolution was seen. Ever since X and Y were released, teambuilding has been increasingly centralized on using Mega Pokemon, the most simple explanation of which being that Mega Pokemon are much more powerful and versatile than most other regular Pokemon. The release of ORAS did nothing to slow the popularity of Mega Pokemon, as several more intimidating Megas were released. Unless one has two Pokemon that can Mega Evolve on a team, a Pokemon seen on a team that can Mega Evolve will almost always Mega Evolve. Despite this great number of powerful Mega Pokemon, the metagame lacks a counter to Mega Evolution in general. Megas individually or in small numbers can be countered by other specific Pokemon, but a role does not exist to counter the mechanic that makes Megas great in the first place: The ability to completely alter the flow of battle by changing a Pokemon's ability, stats, and even type. This Pokemon would create a new niche in CAP for itself in which it would prevent as many potential Mega Evolvers as possible from accessing this power and versatility, allowing them to easily be taken out. In countering Mega Evolution to the greatest extent that one Pokemon possibly could, this Pokemon would greatly benefit the entire OU metagame of Generation 6, as it would discourage people from being overly dependent on Mega Evolution, forcing people to create more diverse teams, while also allowing teams to be less reliant on countering specific Mega Evolutions, which would also give people more creative freedom, allowing the metagame to progress further with new ideas and methods of thinking.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What are the driving factors behind making Generation 6 so centralized on Mega Evolution? Is it simply the power and versatility of Megas, or is it that people only feel that way?
• What are the factors that make individual Mega Evolutions so useful? Is it still possible for their non-Mega Evolved forms to remain viable in the meta?
• How are teams built around Megas? In what ways are Pokemon chosen to support specific Mega Evolutions?
• How does the role of a Mega change on a team based on if it is chosen as a Pokemon to support others or be supported by others? Which is the better strategy?
• What is the most viable method of countering Mega Evolution? How can as many Pokemon as possible be made to lose incentive to Mega Evolve by a single Pokemon?
• Is it possible to counter an entire mechanic in Pokemon? If not, then what are the major aspects of that mechanic (in this case, Mega Evolution) that can be countered?
• As it is most likely impossible to create a Pokemon that counters all Mega Evolutions without making such a Pokemon that is highly overpowered, how many Mega Evolutions could be countered by this Pokemon while still allowing it to be on par with other OU Pokemon?
• In continuation of the above question, which Megas would be the most vital to counter in order to benefit the OU metagame as a whole?
• What would the full extent of a great countering of a now major mechanic (Mega Evolution) in Pokemon be? Would the metagame become too centralized on a Pokemon do such a thing? Would teams become increasingly creative, stylistic, and unpredictable, or would they become uniform with such a threat to some of the most viable Pokemon at the moment?
• How would one counter and get around a Pokemon that counters one of the most widespread mechanics in OU?
• When would be the appropriate time in a battle to bring out a Mega Evolution counter? Would battles with players who still had Megas become long waits until the end for Megas to be sent out?
• Would this Pokemon discourage Megas from being included on teams so much that it loses its purpose? Or if this occurred, would it achieve its ultimate purpose?

Explanation: I feel that, although Mega Evolution has been around for quite a while now and has become a centralizing force in OU and other metagames, it has not been fully explored, particularly in CAP. This is why I included many questions that focused on the concept of Mega Evolution itself. We can gain a much higher comprehension of Mega Evolution by exploring how to counter it. Speaking about the Pokemon specifically, we would need to analyze many factors on how it would counter the most Megas possible, such as type advantages, abilities that work against significant Megas, stats that would aid it against major Megas, and moves that would stop specific Mega Evolutions from fulfilling their functions. Personally, I think a type like Fire/Fairy (or Steel/Fairy) would be helpful in resisting or being offensively powerful against many Megas, like Mega Mawile, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Altaria, Mega Charizard (both), Mega Garchomp, Mega Gallade, Mega Gyarados, Mega Heracross, Mega Latias, Mega Latios, Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Venusaur. I also believe that offensively crippling status moves like Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave would work effectively, seeing how most of the Pokemon previously listed work as offensive sweepers. There are many possibilities, but any one would be fairly difficult to work out, meaning this would be a very discussion-based topic where most answers cannot simply be sent away, as the past few processes in the past have seen. Overall, I created this topic on the idea that CAP needs a topic which teaches us more about the current metagame than we can already tell, allows for more freedom in battling effectively, and creates a new role for a Pokemon, all while allowing for heated, in-depth discussions which encourage the whole CAP community to participate rather than watch a few posters from the sidelines.

 

[En Passant]

That concept is beyond impossible, for reasons including but not limited to:

1. The game mechanics make preventing Mega Evolution impossible.
2. The diversity of Megas means that the only way to counter them all is to create an obscenely broken Pokemon. You'd have to have the Speed to hit the 130+ base Megas before they hit you, the bulk to withstand the ~160 base attacking stats many Megas have, on both sides of the spectrum (even with Speed, some carry priority!), and enough power to break through the bulky Megas, also on both sides of the spectrum (sometimes at the same time).
3. The same goes for typing. Even with your proposed typing (which is illegal since it's poll-jumping), it's still weak to EdgeQuake that many of those Megas carry at least part of. There are also Megas that you didn't include, probably on purpose, which destroy that typing.

 

[JungleB]

Name: No Speed, No Problem

General Description: A pokemon that manages to utilize its low speed to its advantage, even outside of Trick Room.

Justification: Over the generations, the ideal speed has risen higher and higher. This has effected the viability of many pokemon, allowing some to rise despite their flaws, while causing others to be considered terrible pokemon. However, while there are many pokemon that are still useful despite their low speed (Slowbro, Draglage, Crawdaunt) there is yet to be a pokemon that can capitalize on it's low speed, despite the massive speed creep, and increase in priority.

A pokemon with low speed that can capitalize on that low speed would likely make a large impact on OU. If it were able to pull off it's role successfully, speed may become of less importance in the metagame, allowing many lower speed pokemon to shine, as they have a little less to worry about.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is it even possible to have a pokemon that not only doesn't mind its low speed, but can actually capitalize on it?
• What would be the best role for that pokemon?
• How would it change the metagame?
• If it did manage to change the metagame to the point where many low speed pokemon are more viable, would running a team of pokemon with high speed over high bulk still be worth it?
• How would the changes it makes to the metagame be effected by its role?
• Would this pokemon increase the viability of Trick Room?

Explanation: So, this submission was mainly inspired by two pokemon. Draglage, and Balanced Hackmons Shedinja. Draglage is a very impressive wallbreaker in OU. It can deal massive damage to walls with Adaptability Choice Specs Draco Meteor. Its special bulk and typing allow it to switch in on many special attacks, so it can punch holes in the enemy team.

In Balanced Hackmons, Shedinja will always use the sturdy ability, making it unkillable without passive damage, or Mold Breaker users. Most people have many checks and counters for Shedinja, so Shedinja is actually mainly used as a pivot. It runs minimum possible speed, and either Parting Shot, Baton Pass, or Volt Switch so that when it's counter is switched in, it uses its switching move to switch to the appropriate counter for that pokemon.

By taking the best parts of these (besides the unkillable part of course) and putting them into one pokemon, it could make a massive impact on the metagame. A pokemon that could punch holes in walls, pivot out to deal with offensive teams and be difficult to KO would be an amazing addition to the metagame, as it would not only fulfill a niche no pokemon has, but could also create a massive shift in the metagame.

(BTW, I'm new to CAP, so I'm sorry if I wasn't aware of a CAP that already does this to an extent, or if I did something wrong. If I did do either, let me know so I can edit my post to be correct.)

 

[Iron Caliber]

Concept Name: Sitting Duck

Description: A Pokemon that draws its strength from having less or no "mobility" compared to other Pokemon, intentionally losing momentum and drawing in opposing switches to respond to its threats while maintaining its position in a match.

Justification: A Pokemon's ability to generate or remove momentum is key to its viability in OU. Often times, this is accomplished by being mobile: i.e. using moves such as U-turn or Volt Switch to ease prediction and create unfavorable situations for the opposing team. A Pokemon that finds itself in bad situations due to its lack of mobility and can overcome those kinds of situations would be an interesting addition to OU, as it could possibly redefine what a "safe" or "unsafe" switch really is. Alternatively, an immobile playstyle can pave the way for previously unviable Pokemon to follow this CAP's example.

Questions to be Answered:

• Is momentum something that can be lost beyond what would be considered "normal limits"?
• Is it possible for a Pokemon to gain advantage by staying put, rather than finding an opportune moment to switch in?
• How can we define mobility in competitive Pokemon? Is there truly a way to be completely immobile, or to remove mobility from an opposing Pokemon?
• How can a Pokemon be more successful by being reactive, rather than proactive, in a competitive scenario? How many roles can that Pokemon fulfill on a team?
• Can a Pokemon that is constantly threatened survive in the OU metagame? If not, what tools would it need to overcome its threats?

Explanation: Ever since the advent of in-turn switch moves like U-turn and Volt Switch, the OU metagame has been heavily defined by the "momentum" generated by both players. Whether momentum is gained by using said moves, making good switches, or through superior prediction, it's incredibly important for creating and maintaining an advantage in a match. Right now, the metagame is more fast-paced than ever. U-turns there, switches there, it's a type of controlled chaos that is very appealing to a lot of people, me included. I've always enjoyed VoltTurn teams, and keeping people guessing as I conduct my battle strategy. However, I've always wanted to see a Pokemon that doesn't need to physically move in order to find the right situation; one that instead thrives on being in bad situations.

We all know the feeling. Your Latios unfortunately has to stare down a Bisharp. If you switch, Pursuit kills you; if you stay in and attack, Sucker Punch kills you. Your only option is to attempt to out-predict your opponent and safely get out of a bad situation. Bisharp is partially what inspired this concept, because it's a Pokemon that has a variety of tools it can use to punish multiple actions your opponent takes. But, a Pokemon with such a well-equipped offensive toolbox is only truly at its potential when you're on the offensive, when you can force those bad situations on your opponent. This CAP would flip that upside-down, and be a Pokemon that creates bad situations for itself or commonly finds itself in bad situations, but has the tools it needs to respond to its threats, and would be at its fullest potential while on the defensive.

Imagine taking a situation like the one I described above, but reverse it. This CAP could stare down a top threat, and possibly take super-effective damage from that threat's STABs, but still stand strong in the face of danger. This CAP wouldn't be controlled by the situation, and would in fact flip the prediction around, forcing your opponent to think twice about going on the offensive, despite having this CAP cornered. Making a "safe switch" against this CAP would be much more difficult than other Pokemon, due to its ability to respond while being threatened.

This is my first CAP as well, and I'm excited to try my hand at contributing. I'm aware that this concept isn't perfect but I'd like to know what you all think.

 

[EpicUmbreon29]

That concept is beyond impossible, for reasons including but not limited to:

1. The game mechanics make preventing Mega Evolution impossible.
2. The diversity of Megas means that the only way to counter them all is to create an obscenely broken Pokemon. You'd have to have the Speed to hit the 130+ base Megas before they hit you, the bulk to withstand the ~160 base attacking stats many Megas have, on both sides of the spectrum (even with Speed, some carry priority!), and enough power to break through the bulky Megas, also on both sides of the spectrum (sometimes at the same time).
3. The same goes for typing. Even with your proposed typing (which is illegal since it's poll-jumping), it's still weak to EdgeQuake that many of those Megas carry at least part of. There are also Megas that you didn't include, probably on purpose, which destroy that typing.

I believe that if we address new and diverse ideas as beyond impossible, we will not be motivated to progress further. As a result, we must learn by going beyond what we believe is possible. After all, humans have gone to space, which must have seemed impossible at one time (I apologize for being unable to think of a better reference at the time of writing this. Also, in regards to your three points:

1. I do not propose that we prevent Mega Evolution (make it impossible), only that we discourage it from happening (for example, by countering Pokemon that do Mega Evolve or making it more preferable not to Mega Evolve). This would not aim to prevent a game mechanic (such as a new ability to make it so that the opponent could not Mega Evolve, which would be against the rules anyway), but to put the opponent at a disadvantage for pursuing Mega Evolution.

2. I never specify in the description or justification how the Pokemon would deal with as many Megas as possible, and I believe there are more ways to solve a problem than simply through stats. Additionally, the Pokemon would have to be balanced in such a way that Pokemon that do not Mega Evolve would be more effective against it than those who do. This would be up to the community to decide on how to fulfill its role, and would have to be a thorough and in-depth discussion, which is why I thought this concept would be interesting. I do agree that this Pokemon could be in danger of being given too much power, which is why I included Questions 7 and 8 (I felt we could learn about such things from this concept).

3. Explanations may involve specific ideas of the concept creator, as they will be removed from the submission in polls (as the first post says). Therefore, they can include specific types, moves, abilities, or stat spreads the author believes may help. Also, you are correct in that I intentionally left off some Megas, as I wanted to give specific ones that the typing I thought could be helpful against.

Overall, I do see legitimacy to your concerns, but these same concerns are what I wanted to explore more with this concept. I thought it could help us to explore what we deem impossible, as I did at first when I thought of this concept.

I apologize if my post was in any way confusing or if I could have somehow compressed information to be more streamlined and comprehensive (my writing does have the tendency to drag on more than it should). If anyone has any questions or concerns regarding my concept, I would be happy to address them.

 

[The_GrimmCreeper]

Name: Entrainment Train

General Description: This Pokemon uses Entrainment to give it's hindering ability to an unsuspecting opponent, without being hindered by the ability too much.

Justification:When thinking of the move Entrainment, most people think of Truant Durant. However, the one problem with this is that Durant isn't able to use its ability effectively. This Pokemon would have a hindering ability, one that it can use effectively without becoming terrible. The ability, however, must still hinder the opponent after being given it by Entrainment. This would allow "Entrainment Train" to benefit from either a hindered opponent or a free turn, due to the opponent switching.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is a Pokemon with a hindering ability still able to thrive in the Metagame?
• Can the ability be hindering enough, while not making the Pokemon useless?
• Can this Pokemon benefit from giving the opponent the hindering ability?
• How will getting a hindering ability affect the momentum of the opposing team?
• Will gaining the new ability be something the opponent can brush off, or be something that requires an entire strategy change?
• Will this Pokemon be one that you revolve your team around, or setup for a sweeper?
• Will using this Pokemon effectively gain momentum for your team, or lose it?

Explanation:
"Entrainment Train" doesn't resolve around a specific ability. However, it does resolve around a somewhat small "type" of an ability: Hindering abilities. The reason there is a small amount of these kind of abilities is because very few Pokemon have them, as abilities are usually supposed to help the Pokemon who has them. I am worried that this might severely limit discussion because of the small amount of abilities that would be able to use. However, lets move past that for now. One of the harder questions about this topic is how to make the Pokemon have a hindering ability, but not too hindering that it becomes terrible. This pretty much excludes Truant from the possible abilities, and might exclude Slow Start and Defeatist as well. So, what kind of abilities is viable for this Pokemon?

Well, one ability that I thought of that would be useful is Normalize. This ability turns every move into a Normal-type move. Now, while this is a pretty terrible ability, as it drastically lowers the offensiveness of the Pokemon, it has some useful qualities if given to the enemy through Entrainment. If "Entrainment Train" is a Rock, Steel, or both, then any attacking move from the opponent will be not very effective. Or, if we want to be evil and most likely overpowered, we can make the Pokemon part Ghost-type, causing the opponent to be unable to deal damage to "Entrainment Train" after being hit by Entrainment.

Another possibility for an ability could be Heavy Metal. Heavy Metal increases the power of Heavy Slam and Heat Crash and increases the damage dealt by Low Kick and Grass Knot. Luckily, Pokemon don't have those moves. Thus, when an opposing Pokemon gets the Heavy Metal Ability, it usually won't be able to benefit from it. However, if "Entrainment Train" knew either Low Kick or Grass Knot, then it would be able to deal a lot of damage to the opponent, after using Entrainment.

Another, less hindering ability idea, would be Hustle. While this ability raises Attack, it lowers the accuracy of physical moves by 20%. However, this ability doesn't hinder special attackers at all, so it doesn't seem as viable as a possible ability. Also, while Klutz could be a potential ability, it isn't really that different from using Knock Off on the opponent, which can be done with lots of Pokemon. However, I hope that if this concept is discussed more, more viable abilities/ability strategies will be found.


Also my first CAP Concept, even though I've been lurking for a while.

 

[Burt Racecar]

Entrainment Train Concept

There is a concept that covers this on the previous page but with a broader range of options to inhibit an opponents ability, cos let's face it that's what this is concept is at the core.

EpicUmbreon29'sMega Buster
I think it's too broad of a concept, and the addition of this CAP won't stop Mega-evolution or even discourage it. Generally speaking it's optimal to run a mega pokemon, there is no downside except for the opportunity cost that you can't use more than one. So I have to agree that universally discouraging Mega-evolution would actually be impossible to do. As it stands right now, some Megas have such an easy time Megavolving, Mega-Sableye for example, and some Megas already have to rely on their team to create opportune moments to Mega-evolve, like Mega-Houndoom. Because of the sheer variety of Mega pokemon and how they differ in terms of team utility there is already this gap between choosing whether to Megavolve now or later.
With some tweaks to narrow it down, it could become a sound concept imo, like can we create a pokemon that makes it harder for some pokemon to go Mega, Mega-Metagross and Mega-Sableye, are currently the two most powerful (centralizing/talked about) Mega-evolutions in OU and neither of those struggle for opportunities.

 

[The_GrimmCreeper]

There is a concept that covers this on the previous page but with a broader range of options to inhibit an opponents ability, cos let's face it that's what this is concept is at the core.

While I understand what you are saying, I feel that this concept is different enough from Kankuro195's "Ability Neutralizer" Concept. His concept relies on neutralizing the opponents ability, not necessarily giving it a bad one. Several moves exist that change the opponent's ability to a different one. These include Worry Seed, Simple Beam, and Skill Swap. However, with the first two, those abilities aren't bad, and can be useful in many situations. Skill Swap, on the other hand, depends heavily on the opponent's original ability. For example, Skill Swapping with a Klutz Loppuny will give you a hindering ability, but not give your opponent unless you also had a hindering ability. "Entrainment Train" doesn't rely on whether the opponent depends on its ability, while also not worrying about getting an ability that is harmful to it. Kankuro195 also states that Pokemon that should be able to counter it will be the ones that don't rely on its ability, or at least not be affected by getting a different one from Worry Seed or Simple Beam. I relate the difference between to concepts as to stopping an opponent from increasing their stats, to actually lowering there stats. While they both deal with stats, lowering the stats actually benefits your team, while just halting there stats does not in most situations. However, if staff do believe that "Entrainment Train" is too similar to "Ability Neutralizer", feel free to delete the concept post.

 

[Mowtom]

While I understand what you are saying, I feel that this concept is different enough from Kankuro195's "Ability Neutralizer" Concept. His concept relies on neutralizing the opponents ability, not necessarily giving it a bad one. Several moves exist that change the opponent's ability to a different one. These include Worry Seed, Simple Beam, and Skill Swap. However, with the first two, those abilities aren't bad, and can be useful in many situations. Skill Swap, on the other hand, depends heavily on the opponent's original ability. For example, Skill Swapping with a Klutz Loppuny will give you a hindering ability, but not give your opponent unless you also had a hindering ability. "Entrainment Train" doesn't rely on whether the opponent depends on its ability, while also not worrying about getting an ability that is harmful to it. Kankuro195 also states that Pokemon that should be able to counter it will be the ones that don't rely on its ability, or at least not be affected by getting a different one from Worry Seed or Simple Beam. I relate the difference between to concepts as to stopping an opponent from increasing their stats, to actually lowering there stats. While they both deal with stats, lowering the stats actually benefits your team, while just halting there stats does not in most situations. However, if staff do believe that "Entrainment Train" is too similar to "Ability Neutralizer", feel free to delete the concept post.

I think the bigger problem is that a hindering ability, by definition, cannot be beneficial to the Pokemon that has it. Klutz is the only one that comes close, and Entrainment Klutz is directly inferior to Knock Off. Any other hindering ability is much worse for the Pokmeon that has it to begin with. The most we could do is make a Slow Start wall who doesn't care about the loss of Attack+Speed, but even then, the foe switches out and you are left with a useless ability.

 

[The_GrimmCreeper]

I think the bigger problem is that a hindering ability, by definition, cannot be beneficial to the Pokemon that has it. Klutz is the only one that comes close, and Entrainment Klutz is directly inferior to Knock Off. Any other hindering ability is much worse for the Pokmeon that has it to begin with. The most we could do is make a Slow Start wall who doesn't care about the loss of Attack+Speed, but even then, the foe switches out and you are left with a useless ability.

But what about Normalize? It is only terrible if you plan to have an offensively centered Pokemon have it. Also, what about Heavy Metal? It can be useful if you have Heavy Crash or Heat Slam, but most Pokemon don't usually have those moves. And your argument about the opponent switching out is actually a crucial question for this concept. Will "Entrainment Train" be able to benefit from this free turn, or will it be brushed off by the opponent. In that free turn, there are a variety of hazards that you could set up, several status conditions you could inflict on the newly switched in opponent, or even some stat-boosting moves. And, if you can predict correctly, using Entrainment on the same turn that the opponent switches in would drastically benefit "Entrainment Train".

 

[EpicUmbreon29]

There is a concept that covers this on the previous page but with a broader range of options to inhibit an opponents ability, cos let's face it that's what this is concept is at the core.

EpicUmbreon29'sMega Buster
I think it's too broad of a concept, and the addition of this CAP won't stop Mega-evolution or even discourage it. Generally speaking it's optimal to run a mega pokemon, there is no downside except for the opportunity cost that you can't use more than one. So I have to agree that universally discouraging Mega-evolution would actually be impossible to do. As it stands right now, some Megas have such an easy time Megavolving, Mega-Sableye for example, and some Megas already have to rely on their team to create opportune moments to Mega-evolve, like Mega-Houndoom. Because of the sheer variety of Mega pokemon and how they differ in terms of team utility there is already this gap between choosing whether to Megavolve now or later.
With some tweaks to narrow it down, it could become a sound concept imo, like can we create a pokemon that makes it harder for some pokemon to go Mega, Mega-Metagross and Mega-Sableye, are currently the two most powerful (centralizing/talked about) Mega-evolutions in OU and neither of those struggle for opportunities.

I have to thank you for bringing up this so that I can clarify what my idea was. The CAP would obviously not be able to universally discourage Mega Evolution, but the goal would instead be to see how far it could go in discouraging Mega Evolution. I address this in Question 5, although I see now that it would help to add another question specifically regarding Pokemon, so I will edit my post to include that. Additionally, I will change some of the wording in my post to make it clearer that this Pokemon aims to counter Mega Evolution only as far as one Pokemon can.

Also, I do not believe that the concept is too broad, as it aims to counter a specific group of Pokemon, and that group of Pokemon is not extremely large. A topic that would be too broad, in my opinion, would be one that simply aimed to create something like "A Pokemon that deals with the top threats in OU", which would not really provide any guidelines.

Finally, regarding your statements regarding the power of Mega Evolution itself, this is the problem that I hoped this concept could solve. Mega Evolutions, for the most part in OU, are too optimal and have too easy of a time fulfilling roles, which is why they should be countered by more Pokemon. If we succeeded in making Mega Evolutions less viable, even slightly, then it would allow teams to be more diverse and not as focused on countering specific Megas, as more Pokemon would be able to effectively fill their roles with less fear of Megas. In order to fulfill the concept, the community would have to come up with innovative and thought out solutions, which is why I wanted to pursue this concept.

In summary, thank you for making me realize that I can be clearer in my topic, I will change some of the wording and add a new Question as soon as I post this. Thank you also for helping me to point out the general problems with Mega Evolution that I hoped to address.

 

[nyttyn]

ima resurrect this concept by Oglemi because i think it's really relevant today and i still like it.

Name: One Hit Wonder

General Description: A Pokemon that is the reverse of versatile, sporting exactly one good set with no variation and nothing else.

Justification: One of the largest complaints about XY as a generation and OU as a metagame is that there is just too much to prepare for. When a Pokemon comes in you can never know exactly what the Pokemon is going to pull out, even something like Ferrothorn has room for variation on its standard moveset depending on the hazards its carrying, Leech Seed, Thunder Wave, Power Whip, Gyro Ball, or if it's really tricky a completely different Choice Band set. Is it possible for a Pokemon to be viable in OU with only one possible set going for it? Is it even possible to remove versatility from Pokemon at this point?

Questions to Answer:
- What is versatility, and where does it come from for a Pokemon? Does it hinge on movepool, abilities, items, stat spread, a combination of all?
- Is versatility in a Pokemon required to remain viable in the XY OU metagame and generation?
- How does knowing exactly what is needed to counter this Pokemon change playstyle and team building?
- What minimum combination of factors need to come together (ability, typing, movepool) to make sure a Pokemon is viable in OU?
- Is it worth using a Pokemon that has no surprise factor?

Explanation:

In tournaments and top competitive play, the players' best weapon is the weapon of surprise. What I want to know is if it's worth using a Pokemon that has zero surprise value, but is still considered "good" in the metagame. What needs to happen for a Pokemon to remain a good choice for competitive teams? What kind of limitations need to come into play to have it so a Pokemon only has "one good set?" Is it even possible to remove versatility from Pokemon at this point in XY with the gigantic amount of items available?

We've already seen what happens when we let a Pokemon have creativity go out the whazoo on multiple occasions (it creates god-like Pokemon coughAuramothcoughKrillowatcough) but never the reverse. This concept actually leaves a lot of room for creativity and a lot of discussion will have to take place at each stage to make sure we are keeping the Pokemon viable but won't have any wiggle room once we're done. One of the earliest stage discussions will have to be whether we want this Pokemon to be offensive or defensive which will then determine the rest of the stages. However that early stage determination still leaves room for creativity on the kind of role that Pokemon will play on the team, whether it be supporter, wall, sweeper, wallbreaker, etc. In the end though the point will be to have a Pokemon with exactly one role and only one role.

 

[Ununhexium]

nyttyn so you basically want a Pokemon like Bisharp?

 

[nyttyn]

Ununhexium even bisharp has variation. it has an ass vet and lo set, some people run swords dance over pursuit, lum berry instead of blackglasses or life orb, etc. the ideal goal would be to have a mon that can literally only do the one thing.

 

[NumberCruncher]

nyttyn so you basically want a Pokemon like Bisharp?

I think Breloom, Mega-Bro, Mega-Eye, Mamoswine, and Mega-Rock-Fairy would have all been better candidates. At least Bisharp gets a choice between Lum Berry and Life Orb as items.

 

[Mowtom]

But what about Normalize? It is only terrible if you plan to have an offensively centered Pokemon have it. Also, what about Heavy Metal? It can be useful if you have Heavy Crash or Heat Slam, but most Pokemon don't usually have those moves. And your argument about the opponent switching out is actually a crucial question for this concept. Will "Entrainment Train" be able to benefit from this free turn, or will it be brushed off by the opponent. In that free turn, there are a variety of hazards that you could set up, several status conditions you could inflict on the newly switched in opponent, or even some stat-boosting moves. And, if you can predict correctly, using Entrainment on the same turn that the opponent switches in would drastically benefit "Entrainment Train".

Even so, you give up a turn using Entrainment. The opponent can match anything you do during that turn. Also, Heavy Metal isn't really a hindering ability. Nothing really uses Grass Knot or Low Kick anyway, so Heavy Metal doesn't put you at a disadvantage. Normalize might have potential, but there are better ways to force a switch than Normalizing the opponent, such as threatening it with a strong attack or walling anything it can do.

 

[The_GrimmCreeper]

Even so, you give up a turn using Entrainment. The opponent can match anything you do during that turn. Also, Heavy Metal isn't really a hindering ability. Nothing really uses Grass Knot or Low Kick anyway, so Heavy Metal doesn't put you at a disadvantage. Normalize might have potential, but there are better ways to force a switch than Normalizing the opponent, such as threatening it with a strong attack or walling anything it can do.

While that is true, it is the same with almost any supporting move. Also, sorry if I wasn't clear enough about the Heavy Metal thing. If you have Heavy Metal, it won't be that bad because not many Pokemon have Low Kick or Grass Knot. However, once you give it to your opponent, you can then use Low Kick or Grass Knot the next turn. Also, giving Normalize to the opponent isn't supposed to cause a switch all the time. This could be due to several factors, such as having hazards set up already, using the free turn to set up hazards or statuses, or using pursuit to deal extra damage. Also, if switching out is a big problem for "Entrainment Train", then a switch-blocking move could be added to its moveset.

 

[Mowtom]

While that is true, it is the same with almost any supporting move. Also, sorry if I wasn't clear enough about the Heavy Metal thing. If you have Heavy Metal, it won't be that bad because not many Pokemon have Low Kick or Grass Knot. However, once you give it to your opponent, you can then use Low Kick or Grass Knot the next turn. Also, giving Normalize to the opponent isn't supposed to cause a switch all the time. This could be due to several factors, such as having hazards set up already, using the free turn to set up hazards or statuses, or using pursuit to deal extra damage. Also, if switching out is a big problem for "Entrainment Train", then a switch-blocking move could be added to its moveset.

Except no common supportive move is completely removed when the opponent switches out. All viable ones that affect the opponent don't require them staying in, except for Leech Seed which has an immediate effect. Entrainment Normalize only does anything if the foe attacks. And Low Kick/Grass Knot max out at 120 BP iirc, so 2 turns of Energy Ball/Close Combat does much more damage than Entrainment followed by max BP Low Kick/Grass Knot.

 

[TordenOfItami]

Name: Glorified Pool Noodle

General Description: A lowered risk lead or support intended to allow for higher risk strategies to thrive.

Justification: There has been an increasing number of sweeping sets, which can force people to remain with teams and strategies that they know work. While it is true that many of these strategies have been very effective, it could be beneficial and important to try and give room to experiment with new strategies or strategies that haven't gotten much attention or success. If we invite a broader range of strategy into the metagame it could make things a lot more interesting than the repetitive feeling of the opponent just sending their Choice-Banded physical attacker and spamming Drain Punch.

Questions To Be Answered:
Can we allow for more risky uses of the metagame?

Can we discover new ways to team-build and create well-organized, but original strategies?

Can we create a CAP that effectively complements nearly any team, no matter how gimmicky or far-fetched?

How will the presence of this CAP effectively alter how the opposition must respond to these newer strategies?

Explanation: I got this idea while testing out my Mega-Heracross BellyPass set. The level of risk involved made it damaging, both to my ladder ranking and self-esteem. While it was, admittedly, a somewhat flawed team, it made me wonder about how discouraging it can be to find new strategies. This is why a fail-safe of sorts could turn up some very interesting results within the metagame. I'd be personally very eager to try to achieve a low-risk lead or support, potentially by creating some sort of ideal rapid spinner or dual screener. This Pokemon might also take the double battle support path, which would inherently attract more attention to that metagame, another thing that might change the norm. We could also, in the spirit of everything else, discover a different way to make it the perfect lowered risk support, perhaps by putting a lot of care and balance into the movepool, allowing a complete boost of one's own team, without necessarily cutting down the opponent's setup. This could be something very interesting to watch. I'm not saying we have to reinvent the wheel, I'm just saying that we don't know if something can't also roll until we try.

 

[The_GrimmCreeper]

Except no common supportive move is completely removed when the opponent switches out. All viable ones that affect the opponent don't require them staying in, except for Leech Seed which has an immediate effect. Entrainment Normalize only does anything if the foe attacks. And Low Kick/Grass Knot max out at 120 BP iirc, so 2 turns of Energy Ball/Close Combat does much more damage than Entrainment followed by max BP Low Kick/Grass Knot.

If switching out is such a problem for "Entrainment Train" then why not use Entrainment twice? The first one for giving your ability to the opponent, and then the second one to give it on the switch in. Then, on the next turn, use a switch-blocking move. Or, just use a switch-blocking move on the second turn, followed by Entrainment. If Normalize only affects attacks, who's to stop you from using Taunt? After that, switching into a ghost Pokemon doesn't sound like a bad idea. And while the Heavy Metal comparison is true, Heavy Metal Low Kick/Grass Knot Strategy will deal the same damage as Close Combat without lowering the User's Def. and Sp. Def. Also, Energy Ball will deal the same damage by the 4th turn, and be over passed by the 5th turn. Heavy Slam/Heat Crash could also be used on lighter Pokemon, as Aggron, who weighs 360 kg, deals maximum Heavy Slam damage to all but 63 Pokemon. However, this proves that Heavy Metal wouldn't be that good of an ability for "Entrainment Train" because giving it to your opponent doesn't benefit you in many ways, and it wastes a turn. Perhaps Stall would be another viable ability? Anyways, I do agree that your argument is valid, and may need to be discussed some more to find a solution.

 

[En Passant]

Also, I do not believe that the concept is too broad, as it aims to counter a specific group of Pokemon, and that group of Pokemon is not extremely large. A topic that would be too broad, in my opinion, would be one that simply aimed to create something like "A Pokemon that deals with the top threats in OU", which would not really provide any guidelines.

There are currently 35 Megas in the OU Viability Rankings, 27 of which are at least B-Rank. Countering even a third of them will be nigh-impossible without creating something broken, as I've stated before. Your topic is way too broad to work.

tl;dr Stuff about being unable to counter all of Mega Evolution.

tl;dr Stuff about the effects of removing some Megas on the metagame.

It sounds like you're just trying to diversify the meta by attacking Mega Evolution, which is not what CAP is interested in. CAP is interested in reverse engineering: that is, figuring out what makes good things good by looking at their parts and either replicating them in another scenario or creating something that can take them on. What can we learn about Mega Evolution when we can't do anything to stop it as a whole? How can futilely attempting to counter as many Megas as possible supposed to fill in for it? What makes this any different than the many rejected anti-weather submissions in Gen V?

 

[viperfang4]

What do people think about paranoid predictor? A ton of the showdown room staff liked it, but it only got one comment in the forum...

Also, entrainment train, the thing that made Durant deadly, is if u pass it to say, dugtrio, then spam set up moves and protect, then sweep. Still a fairly interesting concept though. We would have to pair it with a pokemon if we did this concept, otherwise people just switch.

The prevent a mega idea, that is broken or impossible.

Glorifiers pool noodle, I already find some of the craziest stuff ever that no one uses, I literally forced 5 rage quits 5 battles in a row from an all defence invested mega gyaradosgyarados with whirlpool, toxic, rest, and sleep talk. There are many many crazy sets that rock out there that can stand alone. Malamar, dusclops, lvl 1 cottonee, echoed voice mega altaria, baton pass scizor or support scizor, and I can go on, you just have to know how to run them.

One hit wonder, we are going to end up focusing on a really op set, it will be broken, there is not very much discussion here.

Sitting duck, shuckle? Dusclops? Cottonee? Whimsicott? Tentacruel? Ferrothorn? Cresselia? Clefable? These all stop momentum cold, this concept is everywhere in the game already.

No speed no problem, really bulky setup Mon or something bulky with decent attack, or some kind of stall. The concept is yet vague in a route, yet so easy to pull off once one is identified there would not be much to discuss. Plus there are so many things in the meta that already do this, clawitzer, conkeldurr, scrafty, clefable, ferrothron, scizor even (priority kinda negates a need for speed), sableye also for the previous reason.

 

[Burt Racecar]

What do people think about paranoid predictor? A ton of the showdown room staff liked it, but it only got one comment in the forum...

I think a large chunk of your justification should actually be in the explanation, specifically the Aegislash talk. What you want to say in your justification is why you think this concept is suitable for exploration. You can still mention Aegislash but save that whole analysis of prediction for the explanation.

Thinking about the concept of prediction though, I'm not sure if CAP can actually explore this in a different way. I could be convinced otherwise, but as of now, I'm not entirely confident it would be doable.
-Aegislash taught us a lot about 50/50 prediction as your concept has shown.
-Greninja's versatility induced much prediction in switching to potential checks, but that was just one of many factors which caused it to be banned.
-And heck, even those of us who have used Specs Dragalge have experienced paranoid prediction through having two of its STABs rendered useless against two very common types.
And so as such, I feel that paranoid prediction has actually been well represented in the OU metagame this past year and a half.

 

[KhosroTheGreat]

Aegis was really the big one out of those 3, because King's Shield was such a big thing. Without custom moves and abilities, I struggle to see how we're going to replicate the effect that Aegis brought to the field.

Having said that, I think Paranoid Prediction is not that well represented in OU, especially considering that Aegis is banned, Gren only really became able to do it in ORAS and then got banned and lastly, Specs Dragalge isn't the most common Pokemon by any stretch of the imagination, with 1.12399% usage in OU (78th) and only 36.711% of that is Specs.

However, I'd have to echo what Toebag said and say that I'm not completely sure this is something we can do, without making it broken (King's Shield was too good, Protean Ninja was too versatile, and Specs Drag with better stats would be too powerful) although this is probably one of concepts I'd most liked to see get done.